Zoe Courtman Interview
Published on
September 19, 2023
6
MIN READ
What are your preferred pronouns?
she/her/hers
Where's your hometown?
I was born on Andrews Air Force Base in Maryland and grew up in nearby Clinton, Md. PG County in the house!
In as few words as possible, how would you describe your current role?
I'm a principal of verbal branding at Prophet Brand Strategy, a growth and transformation consulting firm ("principal" is just an easier way to say "partner with a specialized skill set).
I'd describe my current role as part creative director, part brand strategist, part writing mentor and coach. Each day is different, but mostly I lead various verbal and copywriting teams to dream up brand voices, create global messaging strategies, ideate and deliver marketing and brand campaigns, train client writing teams, and captivate with breakout storytelling for our clients at brands like Google, YouTube, Hootsuite, UGG and others.
What was your path to your current role? How did you get your start?
I started by deciding, over 20 years ago, that I was going to work full-time as a writer, no matter what kind, and no matter what it took. At the time I was an administrative assistant at an aerospace defense company, so I started writing articles for the employee newsletter. Once I had a handful, I used those clips to land some small writing assignments for national magazines like Seventeen and Glamour.
I then used those clips to land a couple of assignments for a local paper, then used those to land me my first full-time writing gig: senior staff writer at a small daily newspaper. From there, I moved into copywriting at a well-known golf course and resort. Got the freelancing itch so I did contract work for a couple years until I landed at a boutique advertising agency in Atlanta as a full time copywriter. Then it was a move to senior copywriter at one of the largest digital agencies in the southeast for several years. In 2018, I moved up to ACD of copywriting on the brand team at NCR, a global Fortune 500 corporation, and after a couple of years, a recruiter from Prophet got in touch and told me about this exciting new (to me!) world of verbal branding. I started there as a senior director and creative lead, and am now at the partner-level of the firm as principal of verbal branding.
When you're not writing, what are you up to?
I'm such a nerd that I'm literally always either writing or reading (I'm working on a horror novel so I write all day for work and then write all night and weekends for myself). In between, I watch anime (One Piece!!!), horror movies, and hang out with my young adult son and my cat.
What (or who) are your go-to’s for inspiration or trends that influence your writing?
Tom McElligott, that great American copywriter and Mad Man from the late 70s, early 80s. His headlines were so arresting and did an amazing job of elevating a simple human truth that you could hang all kinds of advertising on.
So, I'm forever delving into neuroscience and psychology, obsessing over A/B testing results and things like that to understand what triggers someone to feel something enough to act. Otherwise I'm always looking at sites like Joanna Wiebe at Copyhackers, Bob Bly, Copyblogger and all the regulars like AdAge, AdWeek, Ads of the World--and taking an inordinate amount of inspiration from the unlikeliest of places like anime, pop culture, books and movies.
What is the one skill beyond good writing that you think makes the biggest difference in your work?
Two skills: 1) really understanding human psychology and 2) creative guts--never being afraid, indeed, never settling for less than the biggest or most creative swing I can take at ANY piece of writing, whether a headline, a creative concept, or a CTA.
How would you describe your approach to writing and verbal work?
Sitting with the strategy, the audience persona(s), the client's business and industry/creative trends before any ideating or writing begins. Finding the one most compelling "hook," or big beating heart of emotion that's at the core of what we're delivering, whether it be a brand voice for a B2B tech company or a rousing manifesto for a global footwear brand to help them connect with their Gen Z audience. Even if it's hospital bedpans, there's a big beating heart that you need to tap into before you can write a passionate positioning statement or piece of copy. Because before you can get people to act, you have to make them feel. That's my favorite part.
What has been the biggest risk you’ve taken in your career? How did it work out?
I thought my career goals were set: I was gunning for ECD somewhere. But I took a risk and went into consulting, and it was the perfect position for me (almost scarily so). So I'd say it's going great!
Where do you think the copywriting and verbal industry is going? Any predictions or forecasts?
We're going to continue to see copywriting continue to become more authentic and human, less hard-sell and bombastic, especially as Gen Z gains more influence. And AI is already taking over; but we're seeing it's not a direct threat yet because of the quality of the output. So in the near term, people will use it more and more as an idea generating tool, and also as a way to identify the weaker, more shallow ideas that tend to come first when you're writing. The problem is people will still need an experienced copywriter, copy editor, brand manager, creative director or content manager to receive and evaluate the output of AI tools. Someone has to know whether the content is compelling, follows best practice, is on brand voice, on message, on strategy, you know?
What piece of advice would you give young creatives and copywriters just starting out?
Read, live, study people, and then read some more. If you're not a reader, you're not a writer.
What do you wish more people knew about copywriting?
Copywriting is persuasion. It's about selling, not telling.
Outside of writing, is there anything that keeps you feeling creative and inspired in your day-to-day?
Anime, horror movies, books, and music.
Where can The Subtext readers keep up with you?
I deleted all of my social media last year, so I'm only on LinkedIn.
Bonus Round: When it comes to writing, are you digital or analog?
Analog, baby!
Pass the laptop, please and thank you. ✔
A little of both?
Bonus Round: Fuck, Marry, Kill: Copywriting Edition - Brand manifestos, Brand attributes, Product descriptions
Marry brand manifestos
Fuck product descriptions
Kill brand attributes - give me a solid purpose, promise, and principles over attributes any day :)
Bonus Round: Choose your fighter
Oxford comma
Em dash ✔
Zoe Courtman Interview
Published on
April 11, 2024
6
MIN READ
What are your preferred pronouns?
she/her/hers
Where's your hometown?
I was born on Andrews Air Force Base in Maryland and grew up in nearby Clinton, Md. PG County in the house!
In as few words as possible, how would you describe your current role?
I'm a principal of verbal branding at Prophet Brand Strategy, a growth and transformation consulting firm ("principal" is just an easier way to say "partner with a specialized skill set).
I'd describe my current role as part creative director, part brand strategist, part writing mentor and coach. Each day is different, but mostly I lead various verbal and copywriting teams to dream up brand voices, create global messaging strategies, ideate and deliver marketing and brand campaigns, train client writing teams, and captivate with breakout storytelling for our clients at brands like Google, YouTube, Hootsuite, UGG and others.
What was your path to your current role? How did you get your start?
I started by deciding, over 20 years ago, that I was going to work full-time as a writer, no matter what kind, and no matter what it took. At the time I was an administrative assistant at an aerospace defense company, so I started writing articles for the employee newsletter. Once I had a handful, I used those clips to land some small writing assignments for national magazines like Seventeen and Glamour.
I then used those clips to land a couple of assignments for a local paper, then used those to land me my first full-time writing gig: senior staff writer at a small daily newspaper. From there, I moved into copywriting at a well-known golf course and resort. Got the freelancing itch so I did contract work for a couple years until I landed at a boutique advertising agency in Atlanta as a full time copywriter. Then it was a move to senior copywriter at one of the largest digital agencies in the southeast for several years. In 2018, I moved up to ACD of copywriting on the brand team at NCR, a global Fortune 500 corporation, and after a couple of years, a recruiter from Prophet got in touch and told me about this exciting new (to me!) world of verbal branding. I started there as a senior director and creative lead, and am now at the partner-level of the firm as principal of verbal branding.
When you're not writing, what are you up to?
I'm such a nerd that I'm literally always either writing or reading (I'm working on a horror novel so I write all day for work and then write all night and weekends for myself). In between, I watch anime (One Piece!!!), horror movies, and hang out with my young adult son and my cat.
What (or who) are your go-to’s for inspiration or trends that influence your writing?
Tom McElligott, that great American copywriter and Mad Man from the late 70s, early 80s. His headlines were so arresting and did an amazing job of elevating a simple human truth that you could hang all kinds of advertising on.
So, I'm forever delving into neuroscience and psychology, obsessing over A/B testing results and things like that to understand what triggers someone to feel something enough to act. Otherwise I'm always looking at sites like Joanna Wiebe at Copyhackers, Bob Bly, Copyblogger and all the regulars like AdAge, AdWeek, Ads of the World--and taking an inordinate amount of inspiration from the unlikeliest of places like anime, pop culture, books and movies.
What is the one skill beyond good writing that you think makes the biggest difference in your work?
Two skills: 1) really understanding human psychology and 2) creative guts--never being afraid, indeed, never settling for less than the biggest or most creative swing I can take at ANY piece of writing, whether a headline, a creative concept, or a CTA.
How would you describe your approach to writing and verbal work?
Sitting with the strategy, the audience persona(s), the client's business and industry/creative trends before any ideating or writing begins. Finding the one most compelling "hook," or big beating heart of emotion that's at the core of what we're delivering, whether it be a brand voice for a B2B tech company or a rousing manifesto for a global footwear brand to help them connect with their Gen Z audience. Even if it's hospital bedpans, there's a big beating heart that you need to tap into before you can write a passionate positioning statement or piece of copy. Because before you can get people to act, you have to make them feel. That's my favorite part.
What has been the biggest risk you’ve taken in your career? How did it work out?
I thought my career goals were set: I was gunning for ECD somewhere. But I took a risk and went into consulting, and it was the perfect position for me (almost scarily so). So I'd say it's going great!
Where do you think the copywriting and verbal industry is going? Any predictions or forecasts?
We're going to continue to see copywriting continue to become more authentic and human, less hard-sell and bombastic, especially as Gen Z gains more influence. And AI is already taking over; but we're seeing it's not a direct threat yet because of the quality of the output. So in the near term, people will use it more and more as an idea generating tool, and also as a way to identify the weaker, more shallow ideas that tend to come first when you're writing. The problem is people will still need an experienced copywriter, copy editor, brand manager, creative director or content manager to receive and evaluate the output of AI tools. Someone has to know whether the content is compelling, follows best practice, is on brand voice, on message, on strategy, you know?
What piece of advice would you give young creatives and copywriters just starting out?
Read, live, study people, and then read some more. If you're not a reader, you're not a writer.
What do you wish more people knew about copywriting?
Copywriting is persuasion. It's about selling, not telling.
Outside of writing, is there anything that keeps you feeling creative and inspired in your day-to-day?
Anime, horror movies, books, and music.
Where can The Subtext readers keep up with you?
I deleted all of my social media last year, so I'm only on LinkedIn.
Bonus Round: When it comes to writing, are you digital or analog?
Analog, baby!
Pass the laptop, please and thank you. ✔
A little of both?
Bonus Round: Fuck, Marry, Kill: Copywriting Edition - Brand manifestos, Brand attributes, Product descriptions
Marry brand manifestos
Fuck product descriptions
Kill brand attributes - give me a solid purpose, promise, and principles over attributes any day :)
Bonus Round: Choose your fighter
Oxford comma
Em dash ✔